In this episode, John discusses the issues of Elder Abuse – how to recognize it and where to report it… and ObamaCare and its impact on Medicare among other things.

Episode Transcript
John
Welcome back everybody. This is your host John Ross. You're listening to Aging Insight radio here on a beautiful, absolutely beautiful Saturday. The sunshine and the weather's nice. I have unfortunately not been able to enjoy much of it as I have been out running my mouth in the community today. It's been a good high paced Saturday for me so far. I spent the morning over at Texarkana College. They were having a program for a certification for what's called Med Aid. It's a Med Aid certification course, and this is a course where people can learn how and get certified to be able to administer medications. And they were having a program over there, and they asked me to come in and talk about spotting elder abuse and what the reporting requirements were. And so I went over there, and I was supposed to have a speech this afternoon over at the Arkansas side Convention Center, but they had a little bit of a scheduling issue so they had me come over there at 10. So at 10 o'clock I was over at the Arkansas side Convention Center for the Center on Aging's big annual conference over there. And we were talking about how the Affordable Care Act, aka ObamaCare, how that affects the medical profession in general.

John
And so, I have done a lot of running my mouth this morning and luckily that leaves me with lots of stuff to talk about here on the radio, especially because, I am in the studio today by my lonesome. My esteemed partner and colleague, Lisa Shoalmire is in Dallas today. She is with the Texarkana High School high steppers, who are competing out there in Dallas. We certainly wish them all the luck in the world. My daughter is in Sulphur Springs today. She is competing in the UIL speech competition, and so, lots of support for our students. I think the Texas High swim team is out there. Anyway, lots of folks out there doing stuff today. I, on the other hand, I'm here talking to you, and you're listening because or at least I hope it's because, you know that we're gonna be providing the best resource for you and for information related to staying out of a nursing home and avoiding becoming a burden on your friends and family and trying to protect that nest egg, those precious dollars that you have managed to save, so that you can have the best quality of life from today until the time you leave this world. And that's what Aging Insight is all about. That's what we're here.


John
Now because I'm here by myself, I'm gonna be talking the whole time, but if you just get tired of listening to my voice, feel free to give us a call. This is live radio and so if you have a question, you have a comment, you just wanna chat, whatever it is, feel free to give me a call. The phone number is 903-793-1071. That's 903-793-1071. And I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Had lots of questions at this morning's presentation and had lots of questions at the other one over on the Arkansas side and I'm gonna share some of those with you as we go on through today's program. Now one thing about this program is we have lots of people that believe in this message, and I wanna make sure that this message is on the radio. And I have seen many of these individuals or organizations here in recent days because Thursday evening, this past Thursday, the one that's already passed, was the Alzheimer's Alliance chili supper. And we had a great turnout there of people who were coming out to help support the Alzheimer's Alliance, and in particular, help support the Day Respite Center over at the Alzheimer's Alliance, the place that we call Our Place.

John
And Our Place is a wonderful facility. Of course I'm on the board of directors for the Alzheimer's Alliance, so I'm a little biased. But if you're caring for a person with Alzheimer's disease, having a place that's not just fun... I mean not just secure and safe, but having a place that's fun, having a place where you can take them, drop them off; they are gonna have a blast, they are going to be entertained from the time they get there until the time they leave by some of the best volunteers that this community has to offer. And meanwhile, you as the caregiver, you get to take a break, you get to rest. The burden of being a caregiver is so strong, it's so difficult, it's so stressful, that often times the life expectancy of the caregiver is even shorter than the life expectancy of the patient. And it's important, as that caregiver, that you get a break; it'll help you be a better caregiver. And so this is not an ad for the Alzheimer's Alliance Our Place, but I certainly believe very strongly in it.

John
And since we just had the chili supper, I thought I would mention it, and I also thought I would mention not just the sponsors on this show but also the people who were out there sponsoring the Alzheimer's Alliance. And so, one of the sponsors on this radio show is Texarkana Funeral Home and of course the Fuquas, who own that place. They're big supporters of the Alzheimer's Alliance. And of course, also a supporter of this show and the Alzheimer's Alliance is Flanagan Financial. Hershel Flanagan, if you don't know Hershel Flanagan, you need to get over and meet this guy. He is one unique individual. He was our musical entertainment at the Alzheimer's Alliance playing some fantastic classic country music, and I really enjoyed that.


John
We had a draw down there, and there were lots of people that had purchased drawdown tickets, including Guaranty Bond Bank, who's also a supporter of the show. Curt Greene was there with Curt Green & Company, and of course, they're sponsors of both this show and the Alzheimer's Alliance. Vicki Westbrook, who works over there at Cowhorn Creek Estate. She was there supporting both them and us. So lots of folks. Now of course, we also have some other sponsors here of the show, Lonnie Winters Financial who's been on the show recently. Advantage Senior Care, Edgewood Manor, the Barnett Agency, Memorial Hospice and Riverview Behavioral Health and of course St. Michael's Hospital, and we had them on the show here recently as well. And so we've got lots of folks out there who believe in this message. And if you see them out in the community, tell them thanks. Tell them that you appreciate their sponsorship of this program, that will help keep us on the air and help keep us giving this information out to you all.


John
So with all that being said, let's talk about today. I don't really have a... When you give two big long speeches in one day, you spend most of your time planning for those two speeches. And so, instead of planning a third entirely separate topic for today's program, I thought maybe, I would just kind of cover these two programs. So my two programs that I spoke about today. One was about elder abuse and one was about ObamaCare. Now, I did kind of make the joke that whether or not those two topics are related. You can certainly make an argument that elder abuse and ObamaCare have some things in common. But that's... I'm just joking there. So let's talk about the elder abuse issue for a moment, because I will tell you, this is one of those topics that goes unseen, it goes unreported, it lurks in the background.

John
Lots of folks are abused out there. There are children who are abused. There are adults who are abused. There are seniors who are abused. But of all of those, an adult can tell. If something has happened to them, they can report it. They can tell their story. A child or a senior citizen that has Alzheimer's, those two, the very young and the elderly, oftentimes, they can't tell their story. Now, let me show you the biggest difference between these two. If a child is abused in this community, the network of individuals that come out, you have the District Attorney's office that has a Child Abuse division. They have attorneys, district attorney whose job it is to prosecute child offenders. We have the Child Protective Services Agency. This is a state agency that will then get involved to protect this child and monitor that child's home environment. We have a nonprofit organization called Court Appointed Special Advocates, or CASA. So CASA will then get involved, and they will provide volunteers that can supervise this child, and then ultimately, the courts oftentimes will appoint private attorneys to represent the interests of the children themselves.


John
So with all of this, we've got one child who's been abused. And this child has the DA's office, it has the state from CPS, it has private attorneys and it has CASA, all looking out for that child's best interest to make sure that that abuse doesn't happen again. A tremendous support network. Now what if it was an adult that was abused in the exact same fashion. Well I'll tell you, nothing. There is almost nothing out there to support claims of elder abuse. Now there is Adult Protective Services, but they're underfunded, they're understaffed. They do not have the time, the manpower or anything close to the necessary tools to be able to appropriately investigate elder abuse. And not only do they not really have the ability to do it the way it means to be done. Even if they get involved and even if they have found that there is elder abuse, ultimately, the decision of whether or not to prosecute elder abuse falls in the hands of the District Attorney's office. And the District Attorney's office, their job is to prosecute criminals but they have to do that based on the ability to win the case. If they can't win the case, there's no sense in wasting taxpayer dollars on trying to prosecute the person. But you know what? With a child, if you abuse a child, that child, in their own special little way, can tell somebody what happened to him.

John
But imagine you've abused somebody with Alzheimer's, who maybe as little as an hour later, they might still be feeling the pains of what happened, but they can't remember what it was or who did it to them. And so, when it comes to elder abuse, we have really a desperately needy population with no support structure, no big state intervention, no nonprofit organizations out there to help in these abusive type cases, and so, who, who then takes care of them? Well I'll tell you, we all do. It's our job. It's our job to make sure these folks are not being abused. You wanna know who the number one abusers are? Number one, family. That's right. Yeah. So the number one, the single most common abuser is a family member. But you might be talking to these folks, you might be at church, you might be coming over for a visit, you might be visiting your family member at the nursing home and maybe they've got somebody else in their room with them, be on the lookout. And while I certainly consider it our moral obligation to take care of our seniors. There is some legal obligations out there as well.


John
We can look at it from purely a biblical standpoint or an ethical standpoint, and I don't really care which of those ways you look at it, we have an obligation to take care of those seniors out there, but we also have a legal obligation. A lot of times we think about legal obligations applying to people who are in positions of power or people who have a direct impact. Medical professionals, we want medical professionals to have to report elder abuse. Attorneys like me have to appoint a... Excuse me... They have to talk about elder abuse. But here's the thing, you out there are also legally obligated to report elder abuse. We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back I'm going to talk about that law.
John
Welcome back from the break everybody. This is your host, John Ross, Elder Law attorney, here today talking about things I've been talking about all day long. That's what I've been doing. I mentioned that, my first presentation this morning that I gave over there was about elder abuse and we've been talking about elder abuse and, right before the break I was mentioning that there is a law out there. And this law requires anyone, notice I said anyone, anyone who suspects that an elderly person, and elderly in this context is defined as somebody who is 65 or above, anybody who suspects that an elderly person has been abused, exploited or is neglected, has an obligation to report that to Adult Protective Services. You actually, you have to do it. Because the next part of the little law there says that if you don't do it that it's actually a crime. It is a Class A misdemeanor subject to one year in jail, for failure to report. So that's a pretty stout little penalty. While it may be difficult, if you think about it from a prosecution standpoint, it might be easier to prosecute the people who knew about the abuse and failed to report it than it is to prosecute the abuser.
John
Imagine if you're in a nursing home and you see somebody being abused or maybe you see somebody walk out the room and when you look in the room that person has been abused, so you didn't actually see it happen but you suspect it, right there, right at that moment you have an obligation to report that to Adult Protective Services, and if you don't it's a crime. Now they may have a hard time prosecuting the person that actually did the abuse because there's no witnesses, they don't really know who it is. But, you on the other hand, they might be able to prosecute you, you're the one that... Everybody saw you see them. And the thing is, it doesn't say report it to the nurse on the floor, it doesn't say report it to your pastor, it doesn't say report it to the administrator of the facility, it doesn't say report it to the police department. It says report it to Adult Protective Services.


John
Now that doesn't mean that you can't also do these other things. In fact I would certainly encourage you. If you see that sort of thing, tell everybody you can find, because again, there might be... Some organizations might not be able to do anything about it but others might and so it certainly doesn't matter who you tell. Now a lot of times people are leery about telling things. They don't wanna tell on somebody or maybe they just feel like they don't want to get involved in the situation. Well, here's one thing I can tell you, you are immune from any consequences related to that reporting. So even if the person is not prosecuted, even if the person gets off scot-free, the law is very clear that you are shielded, you have blanket immunity for making a report of elder abuse. So it doesn't really matter what the outcome of it is, it just matters that you report it.


John
So it's relatively clear, I think, if you look at all of this that you have an obligation to report elder abuse. The question, I think the harder part, is recognizing it. The harder part is being able to determine what is elder abuse and what is not. People on our show, anybody who's listened to our show, knows that one of the things we talk about pretty regular is the importance of having powers of attorney. Well, if a person uses a power of attorney for fraud, so basically maybe they get that power of attorney, maybe the power of attorney itself is valid, maybe the person even appointed a person that they thought they could trust. So there's nothing wrong in and of itself with the document, but the person that they've appointed is now going to misuse it. They're gonna steal some of that money or something like that. That is what's called breach of a fiduciary duty. But there are things that a person does as that power of attorney that from an outside standpoint might actually look like elder abuse, they might look like financial abuse, when in reality there's a reason behind it.


John
So, I've gotta to take a break here at the bottom of the hour so we can get a little news in, but when I come back, I'm gonna talk a little about how you identify the difference between something that might look like elder abuse and something that might be a perfectly legitimate plan that somebody has come up with as a way to protect that senior. Like many things, there's a couple of different ways to look at them, and like this show, we're gonna look at all of them. And so stick around, listen to the news and when you come back, we'll fill you in on all the details of this.
John
Welcome back everybody to Aging Insight. This your host, John Ross. We're here live on the radio, we are live today, so if you have any questions about anything that we're talking about, feel free to give me a call, phone number is 903-793-1071. And we've been talking about elder abuse, and we've already kinda talked about, a little bit about what your duties are as far as to report it. But here's a situation that I see on a pretty regular basis where there is elder abuse, but people don't recognize it, or it's not elder abuse, but people think it is. And so, let me give you a couple of examples. Let's say that a lady is... She's gonna go to the nursing home, and let's say she's got one daughter that lives here. And this daughter has been appointed as the power of attorney, and in that power of attorney, she has the ability to make gifts of mom's assets, maybe she even has the power to help mom qualify for Medicaid in whatever way, shape or form is necessary. So she's got some pretty broad powers.

John
Now let's say that, again this lady is going into the nursing home. And she's got a house, she's got a car, maybe she's got about $20,000 in the bank. Well of course, you can have a house and still qualify for Medicaid to pay for that nursing home care. You can have a car and still qualify for Medicaid to pay for that care, but you can't have $20,000. In fact, you're limited to $2,000. So you can have a house, you can have a car, you can have 2,000 bucks. Well, let's say that this daughter is disabled. Let's say that at some point she was declared disabled by the Social Security Administration and is now receiving Social Security Disability Income, SSDI. Well, here's a situation where since mom is going into the nursing home, and mom needs to qualify for Medicaid, normally a person cannot just give away their assets in order to qualify for Medicaid. If you give away your assets within five years prior to applying for Medicaid, there will be a period of time where Medicaid won't pay for you.


John
And this is a way that they can preserve those dollars and still get mom qualified for Medicaid. So, the daughter, using her power of attorney because, let's again, let's just assume that mom's incompetent at this point. So daughter using that power of attorney transfers all of mom's money, every penny of it to herself and puts it in her own bank account, in her own name. So if you were an outside party and you didn't know anything about this, and somebody said, "Yeah this lady's daughter, with her power of attorney, took everything mom had and put it in her own name." Without knowing more, you might say, "Well geez, that sounds like elder abuse." Imagine, let's say that this lady who has now transferred these funds to her, what if she has a brother or a sister who lives far, far away. They only come down and see mom once a year anyway, but when they come down they say, "Well by the way... " As people who live far away are often want to do, they don't wanna help with anything. But when they come into town, they wanna be updated on all of the things. They wanna have all the information, they just don't want to have to do any of the work.

John
And so here comes out-of-town brother and out-of-town brother says, "Well, where's all mom's money?" And the daughter says, "Well, I took all of it and I transferred it to myself." If that's all that brother heard, he might think, "You know what? My sister is... Not only is she robbing my mom, but she's robbing me out of my inheritance." And he gets mad, and he runs off down to a lawyer and this lawyer then turns around and says, "Well yeah, if she's transferring money to herself, that's probably fraud." And chances are, the lawyer doesn't know anything about this Medicaid stuff that I just talked about, because he's just some guy down the street who has a general practice, he's not well versed in these rules. And so from all outside parties it looks like elder abuse, but I would argue that in this case, it's probably not. Here is a situation where that money was gonna get spent anyway. Mom clearly wanted daughter to be able to make gifts, that's why she put it in the power of attorney. She wanted daughter to be in charge of this. She wanted daughter to help her qualify for Medicaid, and I bet if we were able to ask mom what she would have rather done, either take that money and spend it at the nursing home or take that money and transfer it to her disabled child, she probably would have said, "Transfer it to that disabled child."

John
So here's a situation where, from all standpoints, it looks like elder abuse, but it's probably not. And I've run into this sort of situation in my practice all the time. Often times I've got that caregiver, or that family, or that parent, or whoever they are but they're the ones in my office, and we'll spend an hour, an hour and a half covering all of the different Medicaid rules, maybe veteran's benefits as we've got to cover a bunch of veterans benefit rules, and we've got to go into detail about how the law impacts their personal situation. And at the end of that I may give them some suggestions, I may give them direction on how to go about doing some of these things. And then inevitably somebody pops up a week later, six months later. And many of these folks will call and they'll say, "John, I just don't understand what's going on. Can you explain things to me?" And once I explain them and explain the issues, they're okay with it. The problem was is that there was just a lack of communication.

John
But in other cases, these folks just run off and just assume the worst in people, and they make reports to Adult Protective Services. They hire lawyers who file lawsuits, who end up costing everybody a tremendous amount of money. And in the end, when they finally figure out what all went on, they realized, "Oh, well, it just wasn't a big deal." So when I talk about reporting elder abuse, the one thing that I would encourage you to do is be well informed. On a program like this, I can talk about little things and I can give you a little bit of guidance on how some of these rules are, but I cannot in one hour every Saturday make you an expert in all of these rules. And so, I need you to be able to figure out these sort of things on your own, get some more detailed advice about your personal situation before you just go jumping to conclusions about what has happened in a person's situation. So on the one hand we've got elder abuse or something that looks like elder abuse when in fact it's not. But there is another side to this and that is, elder abuse that doesn't look like it. It actually looks like a legitimate plan. And oftentimes this comes in the form of scam artists. People who are out there who have no business dealing with these sort of issues.

John
This stuff is related to very complicated legal matters, and yet, there are people out there that have no more than a one weekend course and they have these fantastic designations. They'll call themselves... Oh there's a whole list of them, but they'll call themselves Certified Senior Advisors or all kinds of stuff. There was a big Wall Street Journal article about all of these one time and basically many, many of them are just junk. They're things that you essentially get out of a Cracker Jack box. Now there are some real professional designations: CPA, CFA, Certified Financial Advisors. So there are some legitimate ones, but there are a lot that sound legitimate, they're just not. And these folks, often under the guise of selling insurance products or building themselves into your estate plan, will come up with plans and the plans themselves are legitimate. Maybe they're trying to get you qualified for veterans benefits, and they've said that you've got too much in assets and so something has to be done with those assets. Well yeah, that might be true. But their next suggestion is you need to take all of that and put it in this insurance product that pays an extremely high commission and ties up your money for well beyond your life expectancy.

John
Well you know what? That has absolutely nothing to do with veterans benefits. There's no situation where you have to purchase a specific investment tool in order to qualify for VA benefits. There are always other options. And yet people don't know about those, and so to them, and of course they're desperate for some help, to them it sounds like a legitimate plan. In fact, I would say that this is a form of elder abuse. When I mentioned the statute, the statute says that you're supposed to report abuse, neglect and exploitation. Well that last one, exploiting the person. That that's not stealing, exploitation is not stealing. Exploitation is not physical abuse, it's not mental abuse.

John
Exploitation is taking advantage of their frailty, advantage of their lack of knowledge to their detriment and possibly to that other person's gain. And this is the perfect example of a situation where somebody is being taken advantage of. They're desperate, they need those sort of things. And so, you might be talking to a friend at church and say, "Oh well... " This friend says, "My mom is in assisted living and this nice gentleman was so good to help come in and help get her qualified for VA benefits and and it worked great." You might ask that person, "Was that person an accredited VA attorney or an accredited VA advisor like one of the guys that works at our courthouses like Ken Kunkel out there in New Boston or Ray Harmon here on Texarkana, Arkansas side? Was he one of those?"

John
Because if he wasn't then that person has no business talking about veterans benefits, and you may have just identified somebody who has been scammed. You might then need to report that. And it may not be that anything gets done on that one. As I talked about earlier, prosecutions of these sort of things don't happen, but if it happens enough, that one investigation might at least keep that scammer from coming back to Texarkana. We may not be able to prosecute him, maybe not. Maybe the DA won't prosecute or maybe the Attorney General's office won't prosecute or maybe the Department of Insurance won't prosecute him for selling unnecessary investments. But maybe the threat of it keeps that guy out of our town. And if that's all we can do, hey, then at least it's a start. So again, once again, I want you to look out there and don't just believe what you see. Elder abuse comes in lots of different forms. Things look like elder abuse and they're not, and other things look like helping the person when in fact they're elder abuse. So we're gonna take one more break and when we come back we'll finish up the show. Thanks.

John
Welcome back to the last segment of Aging Insight everybody. Here, we got about eight, seven and a half minutes left to go on the program. I started the whole thing by talking about the fact that I had two speeches today: One on elder abuse and and one on Medicare, Affordable Care Act. But I don't think I'm gonna get to the Affordable Care Act stuff, I've been running my mouth too much. And it looks like we've got a caller here on the radio, so let's see if we can get them... Let's see if we get them on the line. Go ahead, caller, are you there? 

Caller-1
Yes sir.
John
All right, what can we do for you? 

Caller-1
We're talking elder abuse and Child Protective Services and what not. But, I guess, someone needs to set up some system to protect all the young people of the US from that massive debt that's being piled on in the future that because, apparently something is not working for them, because they're gonna be stuck with so much debt that's gonna affect their standard of living for decades, generations maybe.

John
You don't think presidents just gonna pay all those bills for them?
Caller-1
Yeah, out of his stash, so to speak.

John
No, I tell you what. You are certainly right. The amount of expenses that are going on out there, it just boggles the mind.


Caller-1
It's just mindlessly done, like the money is light that comes down like sun light. 

John
I just gave this speech on the Affordable Care Act, and part of the Affordable Care Act was to cut... They cut the what they're paying the hospitals and the doctors, and those cuts were supposed to fund all of this insurance that everybody's gonna get, except that they've delayed everybody getting the insurance, but they've still put in the cuts, which means we've got less money going to hospitals and doctors which is causing delays. And so now, it's not just the uninsured not getting seen, it's everybody's not getting seen because we've got delays in our medical care, all kinds of stuff. So yeah, we got some serious fiscal issues going on out there.


Caller-1
Yeah, I can't believe any inefficiencies in government. I just cannot wrap my mind around that.


John
It's amazing because some of these government organizations are so poorly run, it's just literally amazing that they are still in existence. But I certainly appreciate you calling in. All right. Well, I'll just keep on going there. But yeah, when it comes to that the Affordable Care Act, and again, switching gears just a little bit, but it kind of relates to the person's caller... To the caller there is, we certainly do have some issues related to that. It looks like we've got we've got another caller calling in. Go ahead, caller are you there? 

`
Caller-2
Yes I am.

John
Alright, what can I do for you? 

Caller-2
Okay. How are you doing, John?
John
I'm doing fine.


Caller-2
Oh, this is Mike Godfrey.
John
Okay, yeah. How are you? 

Caller-2
I'm doing great, man. First, I'm wanna let your listeners know that, you all do an outstanding job here, and Liza both, we're customers of yours, and I want everybody to know that. But what my question is, how is ObamaCare gonna affect Medicare down the road? 


John
Well that's a that's a really good question. Because when they originally talked about it, they said, "Oh, well, the Affordable Care Act is just gonna help get insurance to all of these uninsured people. But if you're 65 and older, you're still gonna get Medicare the same way you always did." Now, one direct change is they've drastically cut reimbursements to Medicare Advantage plans. And so Medicare Advantage plans are like the last of the dinosaurs, they're about to be gone. So I think those things will go away in short order. The real impact I think on, in particular, on seniors and their Medicare delivery is that you're gonna have... If a doctor wants to take Medicare, they can't private pay, they can't charge you anything more, they have to take whatever Medicare is gonna pay them. That's the only thing they can do, is take whatever Medicare is gonna pay them. If Medicare's gonna pay them very little, then, in order for them to make any money they're gonna have to work for these big clinics.

John
And that means the idea of your little personal physician, the guy that has the little shop right down the street that you've always seen, he can't afford to stay in business anymore, and so everybody with Medicare is gonna end up in a clinic environment. That's just what's going to happen. And of course the problem is, anybody who's experienced that knows that oftentimes you've got longer wait times, it takes longer to see doctors. You don't actually see a specific doctor, you see whichever one of them is the most available on that day. And so you're gonna have people that rely on Medicare are gonna have less access to care. And then, you're gonna have the people who can afford to just pay cash, and those folks, there's gonna be another realm of doctors.

John
In fact at the speech this morning, we were talking about there's one up in Hope. There's one up in Hot Springs, and somebody else said that there's a guy in Murfreesboro, where these doctors have just opened up a shop, and they say they don't take any insurance, they just take cash. They will treat you, they'll do whatever you need to do, but they just take cash. Most people on fixed income can't afford that. But there will be some, people with substantial means, and those folks will have the kind of access to care that the rest of us have always had, but the rest of us then end up getting forced into this kind of clinic environment where our access to care is not really by our own terms, it's being dictated by somebody else. So, as a kind of a long answer to your question, but there it is.

Caller-2
Who pays that, it's not long answer? 

John
Yeah, it was. Well Mike, I appreciate you calling in. Here I am right here at the end of the program, and they're gonna cut me off, so I got to cut you off. I wanna say thanks again to the people that call in. It certainly makes it a lot more fun sitting in here on the show. And of course, I want to thank all of our sponsors, especially those sponsors that also helped out with the Alzheimer's Alliance. That was a really big deal, and I certainly appreciate it as a board member for the Alzheimer's Alliance. Feel free to, if you like Aging Insight, and you like watching TV, you can now watch it on kflitv.com, and otherwise, stick back with us next Saturday. We'll see you again.

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