Building an Interdisciplinary Team

In this episode, John Ross and special guest Devin Carroll discuss how to put together an interdisciplinary team of professionals to make sure you retirement/estate-planning/trust, etc. are lined up working seamlessly.

Episode Transcript
John
Welcome to Aging Insight everybody. This is your host, John Ross, here live in the studio today. We are Elder Law Attorneys right here in your community and really all across East Texas and Southwest Arkansas now. And so that's what we do. We believe in this information and we believe in it enough to come here every Saturday and talk to you on the radio and answer any of your questions. And as far as that goes, if you have any questions, you can feel free to give us a call. It's 903-793-1071. That's 903-793-1071 and we'll be here in the studio. Now, that's why today we're gonna bring in Devin Carroll who's been on the show many times before and Devin and I, we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff. So, Devin, welcome to the show again.
Guest
Hey, John. I'm glad you had me back on. It's good to be here.
John
Yeah. It's fun stuff. And so you are a financial advisor.
Guest
That's right.
John
And so... In fact, you got a lot of stuff going on.
Guest
Well, I do. Yeah. In addition to the financial planning investment management part of my practice, my core niche is in the Social Security benefits area. That's an area that I saw that not many people were that well versed in. And so back several years ago, I dove into it and then launched a website and a blog, socialsecurityintelligence.com, and been doing that for about two years now.
John
Right. And I guess the kind of the whole deal was is... When I started out doing estate planning, the whole focus of estate planning was on death. It was "Here's what's gonna happen when you die and we're gonna plan for this moment in time," and it was very focused. And what I realized almost immediately as I started doing this, was that there was this whole period prior to death, if you're dealing with incapacity that was just not being addressed by your traditional estate planning attorneys. And so I dove in to the long-term care side of this because frankly, if all I was doing was estate planning, I just wasn't doing a good job for my clients.
Guest
Right.
John
And this was kind of the same thing you realized.
Guest
It was, yeah. So I realized that I'd been practicing for probably a decade and giving my clients no advice on Social Security. 'Cause I didn't know enough to give them advice. So figuring out that the average retiree gets 38% of their income from Social Security and I wasn't giving them advice on that, it's ridiculous.
John
Yeah, so you're kinda like us. We started expanding out and saying, "Okay, there's more to all of this than even we as the trained professional," if you wanna call it that, was more... We didn't even know.
Guest
Right.
John
And then of course on top that, there are other issues, 'cause you start getting into some of the tax issues. And I've got a background in tax and you're certainly versed in the taxation of retirement accounts and things like that. But neither of us are in the business of actually preparing tax returns and doing all of that sort of stuff so.
Guest
No. Thank you.
John
Yeah, right, [chuckle] No thanks. I've done that in the past and I still do a handful of them mostly for friends and family and stuff, but yeah, no thanks. That's a whole another thing that you've got to... And so if I'm talking to somebody about, "Okay, here's what's gonna happen if you have a stroke and you have to go to the nursing home that is going to have an impact on your IRA, it's gonna have an impact on your investments, it's gonna have an impact on the availability of social security for your basic needs," and yet you're gonna be much more well-versed in what to do with some of those things than I am. I can say "Well, here's what Medicaid's gonna count this towards your eligibility." But between now and then how these things should be invested and stuff that's... And as you start saying "Well, yes you could do this, you could do that, that's gonna generate more income or better returns on your investment," those are also gonna have a tax consequence so you might need a CPA.
Guest
That's right. So it goes back to that approach that you were talking about with having the key people involved and it's more than just these little individual silos. If you don't have everyone communicating together, you gonna end up getting something wrong. So you have to have the attorney that's communicating with the financial advisor to make sure if he sets out an estate plan and needs to retitle those assets, but that never gets communicated to the financial advisor and then that client passes away, those assets aren't retitled, you've got a big mess on your hands and all of it was for nothing.
John
Yeah, Devin and I both have seen in the past, for example, there was a group of relatively unscrupulous folks, that would come out and they would offer a free breakfast or a free dinner or something out, typically, at the Golden Corral.
Guest
That's right. Their venue of choice.
John
The venue of choice. And they would give a presentation on estate planning. They would talk about the wealth of benefits of using a revocable trust, except that the people that were giving this presentation were not attorneys. In fact, they were basically just insurance salesmen. They would convince these folks to buy a revocable trust from them and they had an attorney that the family would never see out of Dallas, prepare these things with very little actual information from the clients. The family would then get this big pretty binder with lots and lots of paper in it. And no real advice, and then the person would come, the salesman would come and deliver this pretty binder and they would tell them, not about the binder and all the estate planning in it, but all about the insurance products...
Guest
Absolutely.
John
That they could sell. They would then sell them all of these insurance products, and many of them, they will be able to, 'cause they were good, good at hard-sell.
Guest
Right.
John
They would sell them these things, and in the end somebody would have an estate plan that said a lot of stuff. A financial plan that was in large part of train wreck and none of it matched up together.
Guest
Right. And I've seen a countless number of those clients over the years that go to the free dinner and they get that hard-sell put on them. And then what happens is... And I haven't heard of one recently, but I'll bet they're still out there. But they go to these and then the agent/presenter or the individual meeting with them to get their information to open this trust, as part of that they have to take this inventory, which includes their assets and then it becomes a horrible "I can't believe you have the nasty brokerage account, so you're gonna lose all your money. What are you thinking? So you better move it into this product because it's safe."
John
Right. Yeah, the playing on the fears. We open every program with the three biggest fears that most people have is they fear going to a nursing home, they fear becoming a burden on their friends and family. And the third one is that they fear going broke. When you see market fluctuations and things like that, that gives people that it plays on that fear and so it's very easy for somebody to come in and start throwing around the safe word.
Guest
Oh, yeah.
John
"This stuff is safe. This stuff is guaranteed," things like that. And often times people grab on to those words without looking at the words like fees, penalties, how long will you not be able to get to your own money? And it gets real bad.
Guest
Yes, it does.
John
Real fast. And so anyway, so Devin and I, he and I got a little something going on, we're gonna talk about it a little later in the show. But today we're gonna be talking about basically how do you get this sort of interdisciplinary team together. How do you bring together the legal, the financial, the tax side of this in order to avoid some of these issues? So, that's gonna be our topic today. We're gonna talk a lot about it and what you're gonna have to do right now though is stick around until we get back, assuming I can figure out how to get us to the break because the mouse of my computer has disappeared. Here it is. Okay. So, we're gonna take a break in just a second. Stick around. We'll be right back.
John
Welcome back to Aging Insight, everybody. This is John Ross here in the studio with Devin Carroll today, been on the show several times and the reason I've brought Devin on, well a couple of things. One, he and I have a little project getting ready to get started here in the next month or two, and we wanted to tell you about that. But, before we get into that, was kind of the reason why Devin and I are gonna start doing this little project, and it's because that there is an importance to bringing in different people, with different levels of expertise, on different subjects in order to navigate through all of this stuff. There's things that I can not do. I can not tell you what to do with your finances, not from the standpoint of what you should invest in and things like that. I'm not trained for it. Do I have knowledge about these things? Yes. But, it's not what I do everyday. So you've gotta have somebody for that sort of thing. So, Devin, one question I get all the time is when, when do you start trying to build this team? People ask me all the time. They'll say, "Well, John, how old do I need to be before I go see an elder law attorney?" And my response is always 18.
Guest
Yeah, right. I have seen an elder law attorney, if that makes sense. And I'm just barely 40. [chuckle]
John
Right. But I guess the kind of the point though is that if things like incapacity can strike at any time...
Guest
Absolutely.
John
Things like death can strike at any time. And so, when I say 18, we say that somewhat jokingly, but some of the basics like having a financial power of attorney and a medical power of attorney and HIPAA releases. We made our 18 year-old daughter sign those documents before she left for college because she's 18. So, yeah. But you and I are never gonna have an 18 year-old walk into either of our offices and say, "Hey, I would like to build a multi-disciplinary plan to navigate through my future." It's just not gonna happen.
Guest
Right. Right.
John
So the reality of it is when... I guess from your standpoint, is when do you see people usually start having this and when should they?
Guest
So the time when you don't wanna do it is when you are retiring. So you come in and you say... I had one of these meetings this past Thursday. The gentleman came in and he said, "So, Devin, I'm retiring in December." Well, that's great and I'm glad he took a couple of months before that to start getting prepared, but it should've been about five years ago. So, about five years out, that's when you need to start making sure that if you haven't done it until that point, you need to visit then. That's the critical point. I think Prudential coined it the Retirement Red Zone that you're starting to get into. So if you haven't done it up to that point, it's critical that five years out, you're sitting down with a competent advisor and making sure that he has a team of an attorney and a CPA, or vice versa. If you're sitting down with the attorney, to make sure that they have a team around them. 'Cause I'm convinced that integrating the tax and legal and financial, all of that's critical for a successful retirement. So whether you're planning for retirement or you're already living in retirement, if you don't have someone that's integrating all of that together and taking a look at that big picture, you need it. Because otherwise, things are just gonna get missed.
John
Yeah. And from the legal standpoint on all of this, again, the basic things like powers of attorney and stuff like that, they really are appropriate for any adult of any age. But once you start getting into questions about, say, long-term care planning or disability planning... Although though it is possible for those things to strike at a young age. There are some, at least in my practice, there are some magic timeframes in there. So, for example, if a person under the age of 65 becomes suddenly disabled, and I'll give you an example. We had a, this was years ago, but there was a young man who was involved in a catastrophic wreck and as a part of that wreck, he lost several limbs. And so he is severely disabled. The wreck was not his, or the accident was not his fault. And so it turned out after a year of litigation, he was able to receive some money for this. And it was actually relatively simple from a legal standpoint to be able to shield those funds so that he could maintain eligibility for programs like SSI. That's the Supplemental Security Income that pays for low income people, 'cause this was a young person, and so he hadn't really contributed enough to Social Security to get a Social Security disability benefit.
Guest
Right.
John
But he knew that SSI, because if he got the SSI, then he would also get Medicaid. And with the Medicaid, he could get onto homecare programs like the CLASS program or the Star+Plus Waiver program to help provide people in the home to be able to do things like help him bathe and stuff like that. And so, those were available because he was young. Had he been 65 or older, the tools that we use to shield him would have been gone. There's some magic rules in there in the Medicaid laws will say, "Here's a tool that a person can use to protect themselves if they're under 65." And so, from my standpoint, at least from a long-term care planning standpoint, 65 oftentimes is a magic age. I would prefer people do it before that.
Guest
Certainly.
John
Because I don't know. And just because those tools are available under 65, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily good tools, or that there's not better tools that are available than last minute type stuff. But anyway, we've got to take another break for the bottom of the hour news. So stick around. We'll be right back.
John
Welcome back to Aging Insight everybody. This is John Ross here in the studio with Devin Carroll, and of course, if you got any questions for either one of us, feel free to give us a call. Phone number's 903-793-1071. And today we're talking about the kind of a multi-disciplinary approach to retirement planning and all of that long-term care planning. And Devin, I wanted to follow up on something that you had said before the break. You were talking about, basically five years prior to retirement is the red zone.
Guest
Right.
John
But I guess... So what if you're talking to somebody and they're like, "Well Devin, I'm just gonna retire whenever I get tired of working. That maybe 80 years old. I'm just gonna work until I'm 80. I'm gonna work as long as I can." So is it 75? If they're planning on working to 80, do they wait until 75?
Guest
Yeah. Once they're getting up close to that normal retirement age, which we still think of in our mind is 65, it's time for some planning if they haven't already had it, even if they plan to work until they die, like a lot of people do. The reason for that is is that sometimes the decision about working is removed from us, and so, you become incapacitated. The incidence of disability increases. So there's a lot of reasons that you need to do that planning. Now, and I'll say that retirement red zone, that's for people who have been diligent about saving, who understand that they have balances growing. They have pensions. They have this stuff there. But if they don't, they need to come in earlier. They need to come in in their 20s, in their 30s, when their careers are just getting started to figure out what their path should be to getting to that retirement.
John
And how [chuckle] in your practice, how easy is it to get a young person in?
Guest
I've actually seen quite a few that's in their 30s. You don't see too many in their 20s. But there's a few really diligent folks that come out there in their 30s. But here's the problem, you would think if you just get online and you look at investment advisors Texarkana, whatever the city is that you live in, then you could just go visit one of these recognizable names. But the problem is, if you don't have assets to invest, there's no money to be made for most advisors. So you need to find someone that's willing to offer that to you on an hourly basis where they're not worried about getting your assets, especially if you don't have any.
John
Well, yeah. And I guess that kinda goes down to... That goes down to understanding some of the fee structures that some of these, and of course you and I... As we were coming to the radio station earlier, we were discussing some of that because the fees got so out of control that the Department of Labor finally stepped in here recently and tried to... They did a little bit, but they band-aided some of that. But I guess the point is, is yeah. Essentially you've almost got two categories of folks that you can go to. You can go to folks where you can pay for advice, and then you can go to folks that are going to use your money to pay their bills. And in theory, the commissions and such that they earn, that's where you're getting your advice from.
Guest
That's right. Yeah, and it's all kind of baked in which I do that in my practice as well. But if someone needs to come in and just do the planning, and maybe they wanna do their investing elsewhere, maybe they're online, one of the new robos out there, then they can come in and we can offer that service to them on an hourly basis.
John
And so, yeah. If you're talking about somebody who's very, who's young, 20s, 30s, things like that, yeah. Being able to just... I've got a friend of mine that was in my unit in the marines, and he is now the transition councilor at Forth Brag For the servicemen that are getting out of the military and he talks to them. So you... We're talking to 22 year old folks, 23 year old folks that are getting out into the real world or getting back into the real world. That's a big part of his stuff is you need to start planning for retirement. You've lived like a fool for the last four years that you were in the service. Spending every single paycheck you had at the E Club on base. [laughter] But now you're gonna go out and get a job with one of these companies and you're gonna have a 401K, and you need to contribute to that and things like that. I think young people just don't understand those sort of things.
Guest
Yeah, yeah. Some of them get it and some of them don't. There's other priorities that come ahead. There's a number of things that get in people's way of saving for retirement. And then you'll find a lot of people who get super diligent about it in their 50's. And generally, that's those high income and savings years with the kids are leaving home and now they have more discretionary money. It makes sense but it's often hard to catch up.
John
Yeah, and the other thing about having somebody that you can call, particularly for financial advice or legal advice, is that it can stop you from making some mistakes during the lead up to retirement. I visited with some folks here recently and they're into their retirement years, but they don't have a lot in retirement assets. And on top of that they've got some debts. And all of these is related to student loans and college expenses, but not their student loans and college expenses. They spent their retirement assets attempting to put a child through school who ended up not finishing it up. They also signed off on college savings accounts or student loans that now have balances due. And that's affecting their credit, it's affecting their retirement assets. Had these folks come to you, for example, at I don't know, 45 or so when that first kid's heading off to college and said, "Hey we're trying to figure out how to fund this. And we're thinking about stopping putting money in our 401K and just diverting that money to college expenses". How hard would you have slapped them? [laughter]
Guest
Yeah, I think any of our jobs as a professional guidance that we give, is just to do that, is to serve as a guide. And not having that, if didn't have a guide for my legal issues, I know I would have made some awful mistakes. I did make awful mistakes in my taxes. There's an article that I wrote, that's actually up on a big blog right now, and it's called "Doing My Own Taxes Cost Me 10,000 dollars." 'Cause it did. I did my own taxes for a number of years, which I thought I was perfectly qualified to do. But as it turns out, not even I'm immune to the same thing that a lot of other people find themselves, and I didn't know nearly about what I needed to know about it. When I finally turned it over to someone, they said you know what here's a couple of tweaks you could make and 10,000 dollars was the difference.
John
Well and as far as that goes, when the Department of Labor's new rules, that we talked about a second ago, were about to come out or they had just came out, I started researching it so that I could talk about it here on the radio. I found this one article that talked about how bad certain investments were as far as they're bad for the client but good for the person they hate. The "Advisor" who's selling them. And I looked at my own stuff and my stuff's full, it is full, of those... The exact same stuff that this article was saying. This is why the fiduciary rule is coming, is because these financial advisors do this stuff to unsuspecting people. And I of all people was one of those unsuspecting folks.
Guest
Yeah. I'll never forget back in 2002, I still remember where I was when the guy told me this because it took me a little bit by surprise. I was in training for a big brokerage firm that I'd gone to work for and he said, "Devin, let me tell you one of the most important things you can remember. Right here, listen to me." He was very intense, very serious, and very successful. And that's why the firm had put with him, he was good at what he did. He said, "Devin, listen, there's three people here that need to make money. There's you, that's the financial advisor, there's the client, and then there's the home office. But listen, two out of three's not bad." [laughter] In other words, insinuating that, if only the financial advisor and the home office could make money, that's okay. And you see some client accounts that were just getting hit with all of these commissions. And it was awful. Thankfully some of that, is gonna start to come to an end.
John
Yeah, from a legal side, I have a firm that I had worked for in the past with it, that billed hourly. And I had done a case and I had put out my bill. I'd given it to my boss to review and it had 30 40 entries of here's half an hour, an hour, hour and a half that I had worked on various parts of this project. And I got it back with a note that said, "Hey, add 15 minutes to all of your entries." Wills, I had an attorney tell me one time that the best part of doing a will for somebody is you get to bill the client twice. You get to bill 'em for doing the will and then you get to bill 'em for doing the probate later. And so, don't ever tell them about ways to avoid probate, because all you're doing is, cutting yourself off on some future income. And so yeah, it is hard to find some of... Again, that's where finding the right advisors that are actually working for you, can be huge.
Guest
Yeah.
John
Alright, well we're gonna take one more break and then when we come back, Devin and I are gonna talk about... Hopefully you're getting the idea that between the legal side of this and the financial side of this, there is a bunch of stuff to be learned out there and if you're with the wrong people, if you're doing it the wrong way, you can get burnt and never realize it. Whether that's your own fault, because you just didn't know, whether you're being manipulated without your knowledge, what, there's lots of things. So, Devin and I got a little project coming out, we're gonna talk about that when we come back from this next break, stick around.
John
Welcome back to Aging Insight, our last segment here and I am with Devin Carroll today, and we've been kinda just talking, just in general about the importance of having a team as you try to navigate through your retirement years and questions like, "When should you do it? How do you do it? Where do you get your advice from?" all the way down to some of the more detailed stuff like for example, when do you take Social Security? And then, if you're gonna ask that question well then, how is that going to impact the legal side of things from the standpoint of, if you need long term care or what about your surviving spouse? From the tax stand point of, "Well, but I'm still planning on working, so what's the Social Security gonna do to my tax standpoint, from my other income" and all of these sort of questions and I guess that the reason we've been talking about all of this is really to kinda lead up to Devin and I have thought that this bringing the two sides of this sort of thing together, the legal and the financial is pretty important and we wanted to create a way that we could start getting this information out to folks and technology being what it is. We're gonna put together a podcast, it's gonna start pretty soon now. Alright Devin, we've probably got listeners that are not podcast aficionados, at this point.
Guest
And that's alright. It wasn't long ago that I wasn't either, but once I kind of dove into that world, all of a sudden, I was listening all the time. So basically what a podcast is, is simply just a digital media file that you can consume, sitting there on your computer, on your phone, and you can listen to it at your leisure. So unlike traditional media, maybe like radio stations, maybe even like this radio program. [chuckle]
John
That's right.
Guest
That you need to listen to it at noon or miss it, that's not the case with the podcast. You can catch it anytime you want to and the other thing is, there's topics that cover everything. So, if you wanna listen to something about cooking healthy, there's Podcast for that. There's podcast about vacationing, there's podcast about music and according to some research that I saw the other day, can't remember the research company but it showed that the number of individuals from 55 to 65, that's been listening to a podcast, from 2014 to 2015, has doubled. So people are starting to catch on to this and they're starting to realize that, "Wait a minute! I can drive in my car, I can listen to podcast or when I'm outside, when I'm walking, I can consume this information".
John
Yeah, it's good stuff. Lisa Shoalmire, the co-host here, on Aging Insight, is a big podcast listener. She listens to podcasts everyday. She has several different ones. Some of 'em are just pure entertainment. There's one where people get on there and they tell stories. And they might be interesting stories, they might be scary stories, they might be funny stories, but it's just people telling stories. And she likes to, especially in the evenings, as she's going to bed, that kind of, it's good little relaxing. While she's out there driving, she listens particularly to some of the financial podcast, learning about what different stocks are doing and she likes to play a little bit in the stock market, as you well know.
Guest
Yes.
John
And she's had some recent success with some of that, in large part because of the things that she has listened to out there. But like you said, if you're not catching the Aging Insight radio show live at noon, if you forgot, or if you just tuned in, right this very second, well you missed a whole bunch of stuff, so how do you get that. Well, for example, we are now the Aging Insight radio program is now available on the Internet. You can go to aginginsight.com and you can listen to the program. Anytime you want, any show in the past that you wanna listen to, on any different topic, you can go there, if you're like, "Well Jason, I remember John said something about a veteran benefit and I just can't remember what it is", you could go to aginginsight.com, you could search for "veterans benefits" and it's gonna give you a list of TV programs and radio programs that are devoted to that. And so, we've been trying to do some of the podcasting with the Aging Insight program, but we're strictly speaking about the elder law side of this and you and I thought maybe it'd be important to put together this multidisciplinary approach.
Guest
Yes.
John
'Cause there are financial podcast out there.
Guest
Certainly, lots of 'em.
John
And there are... There's not as many, but there's a few legal-type podcasts out there.
Guest
Right.
John
But I don't really know of any where they're combining the legal and the financial to really bring out a big picture in all of this.
Guest
No, and I can't find one either. And again, it goes back to what I think is so important is that individuals pay attention to that big picture and integrate everything. And so, that's the information that we plan to put out to people.
John
Yeah, and so Devin and I are gonna start doing a podcast, probably gonna be working on it here for the next month or two, maybe try to shoot this thing out the first of the year. I think that's the plan. It's gonna be called, "Big Picture Retirement Planning."
Guest
That's it, "Big Picture Retirement." So, if you wanna stay informed about where we are in the progress, you can go to bigpictureretirement.net. When you land on that page, there's a button that you can click, put your email address in and it'll keep you informed about where we are. Especially the most important thing, the launch date. So, we plan to launch some time around January 4th, 5th, somewhere in there. It depends on when our editorial team can get our stuff worked up. But it'll be some time in that range. And then when we're on, you're gonna get an email letting you know that we are live.
John
Yeah, so you can get on, like I said, get on... And that's bigpictureretirement.net.
Guest
That's it.
John
You can go on there and you can stick your email address in there. We're not gonna turn around and sell it to anybody, but you'll at least be on topic. So, if you believe as we do in the importance of combining some of the legal and the financial stuff in all of this, and really this is where Aging Insight is often focused on the seniors and the people who are caring for them, your and our program is gonna be... We're gonna be targeting much younger folks.
Guest
Yeah. And some of the people... There's gonna be some crossover certainly, so kind of our emphasis is going to be on those that are preparing for or living in retirement. So, if it's an issue that relates to someone who is in those categories, that's who we're gonna be talking to.
John
Yeah, and much like on the Aging Insight program, we're gonna be breaking down individual topics into a lot of detail so that you can get that kind of information. Just today, we've talked about for example the Living Trust Mills and how most of that was geared toward getting people to buy bad investments. We could do a whole topic on bad investments.
Guest
Oh, we could do months worth of topics on bad investments.
John
We talked about fee structure with financial advisors, we could do a whole topic.
Guest
There's the second year of programs right there.
John
We talked about for example, some long-term care planning topics for people that have adult disabled children, younger people who have health issues that might progress, or even older folks that are dealing with age issues. And much like Aging Insight been on the radio for I think going on four years now, and we still haven't really covered the same topic yet. So, there's a lot of information out there. But the neat thing about this... About the "Big Picture Retirement Podcast" is that Devin and I will be able to combine the financial and the legal side of all of this to really be able to get some good information. So, here's what y'all need to do out there. You need to start checking out these podcasts.
Guest
Absolutely.
John
There's good stuff out there. If you have a smartphone, that's usually the easiest way to consume this stuff. Whether it's a Apple or whether it's a whatever, there are apps that you can download. I've got one on my phone, I can't even think of the name of it. But you can download these apps, and once you open the app then there's just this wealth of different podcasts that are on there. Find something that's interesting for you and start checking this out. My guess is is that if you start listening to some of these podcasts, you will get hooked pretty quick. I have, Lisa has, I know you have.
Guest
Absolutely. It allows you to go back and you can... People talk about the binge watching that comes out of Netflix if you find something, a series that you really like you can go back and just watch all the episodes at one time. Podcasts are somewhat the same way. You can go back on those and you can listen to all of 'em. I'm doing that right now with the podcast that I'd never listened to, it's called "Startup." And it's been around now, I think this is the third season that they're in, so it's been around for a while. Fascinating podcast, and I'm just listening to it nonstop. But it'll allow you to do that on those apps. So, I use an app called "Podcast Addict," which is... But there's multiple apps out there and they're referred to as "pod catchers." So, what they do is they collect all of these podcasts and you can subscribe to them right there, you can set them to automatically download if you want to. In that way, when you wake up the morning after we release a show, you're gonna see that there's a new podcast there to listen to. And the you can just simply listen to that at your leisure.
John
Yeah, and they're... Like I said, they really are fun. So, if you're not into podcasting, I would go and check it out. And if you're kinda like us, you start really enjoying this new form of media, then the next thing to do would be to get on the internet. Go to bigpictureretirement.net and put in your email address. That way, we can let you know when ours starts. That way, you'll be able to subscribe to that and just like you're tuning in every Saturday to listen to Aging Insight you'll be able to, at your leisure, listen to the Big Picture Retirement podcast with John and Devin.
Guest
That's right. That's right. So if you've never listened to a podcast, if you don't know how, and you don't really wanna invest a lot of time in learning, that's okay. Still go to bigpictureretirement.net and sign up, and we're gonna send you a guide about how to listen to a podcast.

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